PVP rules

[MrDDT]

If you have constructive critiscism anywere in there please let me know. But to adress the points you are unable to comprehend.

The faction loss for a tribe would be caused by attacking other tribes without declaring war first and it would be accummulative so if you ambushed a group of 5 guys from the same tribe you would get 5x the amount of alignment loss for being dicks and not declaring war like a good tribe should.

Having the ability to kill ->5<- people every 2 MONTHS is just a measure to keep tribes from getting harrassed by solos before they're able to mark them as complete assholes who are kill on sight.

Yes if you get 3 seperate tribes that all hate you enough to mark you as a troublemaker ("asshole") then yeah yoi probably deserve it and it'd save alot of greifing for our tribes. If somebody feels like being a dick and making a bunch of tribes to mark you then they would have to stay in those tribes because if they left them and the tribe disbanded then you'd be unmarked. If they did stay in them then you could contact a GM, it'd be simple for them to see that its a fake tribe and fix the situation.

You wouldn't be killable by everyone, only by that tribe and only if you damaged one of their members within a week. So if you stopped harrassing them and moved away from their location then you wouldn't have an issue.

Most of these are measures to prevent solos from greifing tribes which can be an issue since they have nothing to lose, unlike a tribe which has buildings and such.

If you have any suggestiond at all please share them instead of just crying about how everyone elses ideas suck and not contributing to the discussion.

Love the personal attacks.
But lets move on.
First I will like to comment that I already posted a detailed plan for what I would to see. Im trying to show you that there are holes in your theroy about how people can get around it. I dont see why it shouldnt hold up to people trying to show you exploits to your system.

1)Problem with your system of tribes able to lable you as a troublemaker is this.
I get 3 friends all have a tribe. You keep jumping in front of you while you are in any kinda combat. Now we can gank you take all your stuff because you are "troublemaker". Notice a problem with this?

So now you are saying a GM is going to be able to tell who is or isnt a troublemaker? Great I love that. Going to have GMs able to change how wars of tribes are done. Sounds really great.

Next is the faction loss for tribes attacking without waring first.

You are in a tribe, lets call it Shrimps. Im in DDT tribe. I follow you around while you are attacking animals and jump in the AOE. Next thing you know, you attacked without waring you have faction loss. I do this all the time like 100 times. You are now an Evil tribe.

Im not trying to be a jerk, Ive played many OPEN pvp games. UO, Shadowbane, Darkfall, tons more. I know that people will exploit the system. Darkfall is one of the worst how it has open damage attacks.

[MrDDT]

Well, my answer was in regards to a person jumping in front of you while you were fighting a bear. But since you decided that you want to take this into a different route. It wouldn't be so difficult to think that if one player is taking damage only from other player sources, and then dies, that they should be able to flag all three of them as having been aggressive towards them.

If you want to grief me, then don't jump in front of me while I'm attacking a bear, wait until I'm in a giant orgy, then grief all of us.

Im confused here? So now whats the rule? If 3 people attack you and you die then all become bad?
What if you are fighting a bear? and you are at 20% life and they attack you?

What if you are fighting an Evil, and then they help?

Please tell me the rules so I can tell you how to exploit them with open damage and punishment for attacking goods/neutrals. Thats the whole point of it, that there is a way around those rules. Again if you can figure out rules for it. Im happy to put it in my idea I listed.

[mrcalhou]

Okay, fine, since no matter what everything will be abused with regards to an alignment system (I'm looking at you every game that has one that isn't Eve-Online). I give up.

[MrDDT]

Okay, fine, since no matter what everything will be abused with regards to an alignment system (I'm looking at you every game that has one that isn't Eve-Online). I give up.

Yep, thats why the system has to have no loop holes or it will be exploited. UO was exploited, Darkfall is exploited, EVE's are exploited, Shadowbanes are exploited, L2's are exploited. List goes on and on. They all are.

Sucks that people are out there, but they will exploit these. When its a full loot PVP game they will be exploited to the max too. I played games like UO where they would get you blocked in flag grey on you to para you while mobs killed you. Then loot you. Nothing more than going grey and never getting a murder count.

Im not saying that UO's system isnt good just saying people exploit the systems.

[mrcalhou]

I haven't played UO. But I have played Eve, I think that their system is pretty great. Attack someone in high security space and the great spaceship gods will come and smite you... which is why people don't use smartbombs there.

[MrDDT]

I haven't played UO. But I have played Eve, I think that their system is pretty great. Attack someone in high security space and the great spaceship gods will come and smite you... which is why people don't use smartbombs there.

First off Ive played EVE and last I checked you could kill people in high sec if the cargo was worth it, and with planning.

Second is that EVE system works if you are ok with NPCs that are able to kill and protect you. Which I think limits a sandbox game big time. I really didnt like that Big brother feel of high sec in EVE.

I think the big reason why EVE's system works well is because high sec space has like nothing really to offer other than few low priced items and markets. The good rare stuff is in low sec.

[Shrimps]

Love the personal attacks.
But lets move on.
First I will like to comment that I already posted a detailed plan for what I would to see. Im trying to show you that there are holes in your theroy about how people can get around it. I dont see why it shouldnt hold up to people trying to show you exploits to your system.

1)Problem with your system of tribes able to lable you as a troublemaker is this.
I get 3 friends all have a tribe. You keep jumping in front of you while you are in any kinda combat. Now we can gank you take all your stuff because you are "troublemaker". Notice a problem with this?

So now you are saying a GM is going to be able to tell who is or isnt a troublemaker? Great I love that. Going to have GMs able to change how wars of tribes are done. Sounds really great.

Next is the faction loss for tribes attacking without waring first.

You are in a tribe, lets call it Shrimps. Im in DDT tribe. I follow you around while you are attacking animals and jump in the AOE. Next thing you know, you attacked without waring you have faction loss. I do this all the time like 100 times. You are now an Evil tribe.

Im not trying to be a jerk, Ive played many OPEN pvp games. UO, Shadowbane, Darkfall, tons more. I know that people will exploit the system. Darkfall is one of the worst how it has open damage attacks.

I have no problem with people pointing out problems in a system as long as they attempt to submit a solution or at least do it in a mature manner. You did neither.

If 3 people all make ->ONE MAN <-tribes to label someone as a troublemaker just because they are all jackasses and feel like greifing then they can contact a GM and the GM can quickly see that all the tribes labeling you are ONE MAN tribes and are FAKES. and can change it. He wouldn't be changing wars or anything, it'd merely be stopping greifers.

If you are in a tribe and you jump in front of me to cause me to attack you then I would contact your tribe leader, explain the situation and you would either be booted from your tribe as per the agreement from our respective leaders or our tribes wouldn't agree and we'd go to war. You wouldn't be doing it 100 times before I would either use these systems to freely kill you for being a troublemaker or fraps it and call a GM for harrassment.

The point of the forums is not for the players to come to agreement but for our petty aguments to give the devs ideas. The players will never agree on anything by themselves.

[MrDDT]

Ok, well I will leave it there.

I dont like GMs having the choice on who is greifing or not. Nor do I want them the "Cops" of the server.

Play Darkfall or other games like that and you will find out how bad people will go out of their way to do things.

Plus whats wrong with 1 man tribes? Plus who to say its going to be 1 man tribes? Why cant you get groups of people to make tribes and exploit the system? There were guilds in Darkfall that all they did was put a guy into another guild, to get him ranked up to have access to the guild bank. Then take all the items from the guild bank and kick everyone from the guild.
I mean people really do bad stuff in games and having GM's able to choose who is good or bad is a very very bad idea.

Now you start having people saying "SO AND SO GM is greifing me" now its a company thing. Very bad rep coming out from that. Its just as bad as having a Private WOW server or something. GMs going to give people items too now? They going to start being able to flag people as good or evil? I mean really what kinda powers are we talking about here in the hands of a GM?

One thing is different to being able to do something, another is doing it. GMs should be able to do a lot of stuff, but rarely should they be doing it. You look at WOW GM's and the hoops they have to go through to do something. Why is that? Its to protect the game, the econ, and its players.

[mrcalhou]

First off Ive played EVE and last I checked you could kill people in high sec if the cargo was worth it, and with planning.

Second is that EVE system works if you are ok with NPCs that are able to kill and protect you. Which I think limits a sandbox game big time. I really didnt like that Big brother feel of high sec in EVE.

I think the big reason why EVE's system works well is because high sec space has like nothing really to offer other than few low priced items and markets. The good rare stuff is in low sec.

Yeah. You pretty much nailed why I love it so much. It's all about the trade-offs.

If you really want to go after someone in high sec. then by all means do so, just be ready to have your ship(s) destroyed. If the price of the cargo is worth more than what you'll lose then I say go for it. It's just a trade-off. Though I must say that in months of playing in High sec I've never once been attacked. As a mostly high sec player, I appreciate that I'm not going to be able to profit as much, but that's offset by the fact that it's not as risky. That's the trade-off: Low-risk, low-reward. The other thing I like about the high sec/low sec system is just like you said, some people don't like the big brother feeling of high sec, so they can go play in low-sec where big brother doesn't watch. This gives players more choices in how they want to play and it seems to be working really, really well for Eve. If combat and/or mining in Eve wasn't so boring I probably would still be playing it.

[mrcalhou]

Ok, well I will leave it there.

I dont like GMs having the choice on who is greifing or not. Nor do I want them the "Cops" of the server.

Play Darkfall or other games like that and you will find out how bad people will go out of their way to do things.

Plus whats wrong with 1 man tribes? Plus who to say its going to be 1 man tribes? Why cant you get groups of people to make tribes and exploit the system? There were guilds in Darkfall that all they did was put a guy into another guild, to get him ranked up to have access to the guild bank. Then take all the items from the guild bank and kick everyone from the guild.
I mean people really do bad stuff in games and having GM's able to choose who is good or bad is a very very bad idea.

Now you start having people saying "SO AND SO GM is greifing me" now its a company thing. Very bad rep coming out from that. Its just as bad as having a Private WOW server or something. GMs going to give people items too now? They going to start being able to flag people as good or evil? I mean really what kinda powers are we talking about here in the hands of a GM?

One thing is different to being able to do something, another is doing it. GMs should be able to do a lot of stuff, but rarely should they be doing it. You look at WOW GM's and the hoops they have to go through to do something. Why is that? Its to protect the game, the econ, and its players.

I agree with this 100%. GMs should not be the police. Policing systems should be programmed to prevent, or at least to protect, against bias.